Dont bear false witness to your neighbor is a law from God. Matthew, Esau and Foxflier And please stop mischaracterizing what I said. We are to forgive not just 7 timesremember those words? A quote for the ages. SeanPatrickCornell. The reason I say that is that White has now posted pictures As it stands, canon as a product of tradition has been destroyed. As it stands, your post doesnt deal with anything stated and is tied up with a nice but thats just my opinion at the end. Someone ought to send this to Dave Armstrong. 3. I believe in a rational God. Id have to give the victory to Dr. White. The hints of purple and yellow also add a dash of vibrance to the design. So my point is simply this: If White is such an idiot then be prepared to throw about 8 well known Catholic apologists as even bigger idiots than White. I said substance, not opinions. Was the New Testament Reliably Transmitted from its Authors? If they are utterly ignorant of human nature, maybe. Esau is the one with the consiracy theories. Everyone really is fed up with the excuses. Esua, As Foxfier reported earlier, interestingly enough, http://www.jamesrwhite.org now points to Whites site, this definitely shows evidence of very suspicious activity especially considering that just a few days earlier, accusations were flung on this blog by White disciples, maligning Catholic Answers, claiming they were the ones who DECEPTIVELY owned this url since just before the accusations, this url pointed to Catholic Answers! So there were disagreements. Acts 13:38&39 Its like watching one of those thriller movies where you talk to the TV saying please, dont go in that room, something terrible will happen if you do, but the hero or heroine cannot hear you, and they go in that room, and something terrible does happen. Gary, Im willing to read the book. BTW, you may not have noticed, but the post you refer to is a copy of a post to this web site. Dear Okey: You just dont want to go there. (Though no one ever seems to call out Muslims who make Racism! accusations when they really mean Islamophobia [sic]. //Step up and play the man// Dr. James White vs Keith Giles, First Lutheran Church, Houston, Texas, 2/8/23, Road Trip Dividing Line: New Plans, Greear on the Churchs Failure, Fesko against Van Til, Preview of Radio Free Geneva, No EFS, Predicate Adjectives and Scripture, the God Who Works All Things, Ratzingers Posthumous Truth Bombs, FBC Orlando, Andy Stanley, Road Trip Schedule Debate: Is God Necessary for Ethics? In recent years James has debated in such locations as Sydney, Australia, as well as mosques in Toronto, London, and South Africa. Greg McR: The common thread is a way of letting off steam, privately or at least non-publicly, in order to continue their job of preventing injury or death. I dont think its unreasonable either. My Reply I fully deny that we are a mob of homicidal murders. One might argue that Dr. White and some of his supporters helped to foster such hostilities, but one can also argue that folks at JA do not have clean hands either. Christ gave them all power and authority, saying, He who hears you hears me: he who rejects you rejects me.(Luke 10:16) and Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven (Matt. He felt the need to change the topic from actual theology to accusations and insults. Finally, White uses quotes when referring to Beckwiths title as a doctor. Given the comments here, the generalization measures up. If you want to find the exact situation, go to Chapter 5, though I doubt many, if any, of you own the book. 54 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. of Lordship Salvation, which requires a person to follow Christ (discipleship) Radical <> murderous. Its simply the way it is. Thats a rather large base assumption, since I cant call to mind a single supporter of White who showed up without insult, but *even given that* you are highly incorrect. Esther Webcast Thank you for the defense, Esau I spent the weekend with my folks, and didnt even see Aristotillean comment. Yet you characterize this as measured and fair, and mockery of it as sophmoric. I found Whites rant about the crusades in his most recent blog entry interesting. Disciples are followers. As an audience, they are not required to recognize it as humor, merely a failed attempt. Grace and peace be upon each of you here and upon Jimmy Akin, James White, and Francis Beckwith. I feel if I quote anymore Dr. White is going to sue me. Hows that, Gary? Again, instead of focusing on this trent fiasco why doent Jimmy Akin (since he probably is better equiped at dealing with issues white, some of the ones i mentioned in my post above.) 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned., Of course, he knew it would work out well for him in any case. But thank you for your interaction. Ella Incorrect, since it is logical to conclude that those who do not do a thing to assume they are either unable or unwilling. Youve accuse Esau of lying and/or intentionally being fallacious. Beautiful Savior The Bible nowhere records that the gift of divine revelation would be lost. Honest. I mean he basically says that the only reason the Church doesnt kill their opponents today is because it doesnt have a strong political stronghold, implying that the church would murder if it did. Did The Early Church Believe in a Papacy? That is the data I have used for analysis, nothing more. Esau, I cannot speak to Jimmys motives, but in my opinion the outrage is convenient in that it allows a clean break while simultaneously indicting James White. You do not compare your interlocutors to Islamists or portray those who urge charity on your part as if they were advocates of beheading those who disagree with them. The Lord turned his life upside down at that time and filled his heart with a passion to end abortion and rescue preborn babies. As I have asserted before, I doubt few here have actually ever litened to a White debate. To say that man cooperates with God in writing Scripture takes away from Gods sovereignty. just further proves my point. Which is it? Its not conditional. The Earlier Epistle of John Now, I have also read that it was a judgement on inhospitability. CareBear: Then James White shows up. if the commenter had substituted people for racevoila! Please post prayers for him there, keeping in mind that the thread is for prayers only. For men, such a design would look amazing on their chest, as pictured, or even on their back. as radical Muslims protesting and urging beheading. The images were not speaking toward persons, and Akin was irresponsible for claiming they were. On the contrary, the greater the outrage, the more delicious the cake. How can you stand to be so precious, Trixy? When all this started Dr Beckwith was asking a pretty tough question. Everyone else, you know what you need to do. This was one of the hardest parts for me in my conversion. 16:18) 18:17). You may be a fan of White who doesnt frequent is web site, or hasnt seen the relevant statement or just didnt absorb it, for that matter. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 13, 2007 4:28:08 PM It is a bit off-topic, I know. The intention of the radical Muslim who beheads is to bring death to those whom they disagree with. Thats the analogy Im trying to draw here someone who really thinks this kind of thing is acceptable is not going to be a worthwhile interlocutor. You means Whites claims that Beckwith couldnt really have read the documents from Trent in his twenties? He subsequently made much of the fact that I allegedly struggled to answer if the Incarnation is a unique event, a clear instance of the complex question fallacy, yet when a Catholic does it (see Phils version and My Version), its a cheap debating trick. I follow, specifically, the successor of Peter, because Christ gave to Peter (and only to Peter) the keys of the Kingdom, and promised that the gates of Hell should not prevail against Christs Church. Did I/Do I think it reasonable to do so? So we cant just sit back with the radical Muslim theme itself but have to flow with the artists changes as well. $1099. This is a neat easy way to end discussion and avoid any further diuscussion of the issue. In this case however, we see an individual Protestant apologist who has humiliated himself and his cause by his attitude and behavior. The numerous innuendos .and other non-substantive attacks on White posted here and elsewhere do not reflect an effort to love, only to discredit. . Oh, and your most recent comment: Perhaps he can use this not as a tit for tat, but as a chance to expand. Welcome, Bill. One thing is certain: Zack and his growing family absolutely love the elders, deacons, and everyone at Apologia. I suppose its completely lost on most of you here that your reactions to Dr Whites openly humorous post actually prove his point. Jn 8:44: every religious leader (they aren't Biblical Christians) who teach Lordship 2 . But that could be topic for a whole nother thread. But Catholics really need to stop paying James White any attention. Plan on explaining to me how, if Bob claims to have a divinely-inspired Canon of Scripture, and Fred claims to have a slightly different divinely-inspired Canon, one is to determine which (if either) Canon is truly divinely-inspired and therefore the real Canon? James Robert White is a Baptist theologian,[1] the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, an evangelical Reformed Baptist Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona and a Christian scholar. Where in the world do you get off man? From what I gather Jimmy Akin isnt claiming to win the debate because of the merits of his argument. ~Stu. Or perhaps recalling a handful of protestant killers really does serve as proof that Romes killers werent so bad? You have to neccessarily assume all Muslims are terrorists in order to draw the conclusion that these, in the picture, must be, despite no evidence pointing to the affirmation of such an assumption. Well if wikipedia says itit must be true. I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on, only fingers being pressed against ears while the big, mean protestants ask tough questions. I suppose, given that you showed up to defend someone who called a man a liar on very shaky grounds, we should not be surprised at your tactics. That means that we can be confident that His shepherds also exist in this time and this place to guide us. Meh! Hence, when you combine all that with an anchor and the alpha and omega, which also attributes to Jesus, it could translate to mean that your beliefs are strongly anchored in the teachings of Christianity. It just means that he took a short cut in order to receive the title of Dr. without the usual formation that goes with the typical doctoral program. Youre acting like Muslims! has become the house retort. Christ did not choose only one disciple. The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not the sharing of the blood of Christ? Yet people who claim to be his friends are refusing to attempt to help him. Im sorry. Offensiveness per se doesnt preclude response. Im fairly certain White and his creator were well aware of the ignorant zeal of Akin and his followers when the pictures were created and posted. Keep on rejoicing. CareBear, The Book of Nathan the Prophet[6] Call me a liar, youd be right, any Christian would confess such a thing. God inspires, and the canon expresses the limitation of that action. The reason that I suspect this takes place is that every time anyone raises a specific argument, White typically says something to the effect of Has he read my argument in this other Book X that I have recommended? or Has he not listened to my debate on X? (see the latest entry slamming what I have written without showing the first bit of knowledge of it). Catholics and Protestants both believe what they say it says. Hes frustrated. A quote for the ages. well let me just say, your doing fine in that department already. Speaking of which, I sincerely hope thats not the Ella I know. The nature of canon (mediated) in regard to inspiration is vital to properly understanding the historic canon process. In truth the Church is too unique to prove herself unique. youd have to find a more substantive angle of attack if asked specifically.) Rather than deal with this, some play every which way but loose, even to the point of insinuating I did it. You must be afraid/confused/arrogant/stupid etc. as if this was a debating forum where the commenters were under contract to debate theology on all topics with anyone who comes along. Can someone point me to it, because surely you all dont hold a double standard around here Quid significat hoc verbum? Are the Marian Doctrines Authentic Christian Teaching? Its easy to come across badly in writing because you cant see their facial expressions like you can in person if they werte talking to you. The third is that both have slung mud. All this depends on whether you draw the line at liturgy, church hierarchy, the definition of salvation, the efficacy of grace, and the role of human free will. 3. ohperhaps research the concepts in catholic moral theology of rash judgement. Stubble the last White post. Its typically the duty of the accuser to prove guilt. You cannot go to the individual books of the bible to determine just which books actually belong to the bible. James White does not. Beware of Dr. James White's heresy of Lordship Salvation, Thats what I was attempting to point out earlier: Most infamously, Foxes book of martyrs passed off the baseless libel that the Irish had been murdering Protestants, so it was absolutely just to invade them, strip them of citizenship, and persecute them for their religion. Remember what St. Paul said??? Dont you lose under Godwins Law as soon as you say that Islamists are the Nazis of the post-9/11 world? I hate to even mention this but It does remind me of the mindset of many (thankfully not all) Muslims who, no matter what atrocity they are confronted with always see the Jews behind it to make them look bad. James White Teaches Let him who boasts boast in the Lord. For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends. Esau, 602-973-4602 Tattoo Short Sleeve Tops New Poster for Alpha and Omega xi Tattoo by Jonathan at Alpha & Omega's Tattoo . There phone # is (951) 242-4988. Its pretty clear bill912, it would only take light reading to understand Whites book. Tech Email:whois-protected2@mapname.com We are not Sola Scriptura, but that does not mean that we do not believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Thats ACs Law.// Esau, And St. Cyprian in the third century wrote: Whoever is separated from the Church is separated from the promises of Christ One cannot have God as a Father who has not the Church as his mother. It means he knew of the site, and knew of White. Jeff has been married to his bride, Candi, for over 20 years. just further proves my point. [14][15], White often engages in public debate, having participated in more than 170 public moderated debates,[16][17] covering topics such as Calvinism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, Infant baptism[18] the King James Only movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheism. Sorry. I think that the tempers on this discussion have gotten far out of hand, and thats very, very bad. Many have said already: Whites actions are designed to deliberately repel the very same people he seeks to convert. In other words, he owns up to his mistakes. What other language is it in, as I only know how to read plain English and write plain English, therefore I dont understand what you mean here. Have you stopped beating your wife? Theres no answer that will satisfy the situation. Really bill 912? I only have a single logic class, and I know that.) There, we finally come to the point Ive been hoping to reveal all along Tech Phone:+1.9512424988 I would like to say that no amount of defending on anyones part can make what White did seem like an appropriate response to a call to charity. Youre just employing sarcasm alone which would lead anyone to believe you dont have anything substantative to add to it so, can I safely assume argument is over and all this hubub about Dr. White always being so wrong is a fabrication of a bunch of people who have never actually read Dr. White to begin with? Salvation through the Church IS salvation through Christ, not salvation through Benedict XVI or John Paul II. He has authored or contributed to more than twenty four books, including The King James Only Controversy, The Forgotten Trinity, The Potters Freedom, and The God Who Justifies. Carebear and Lane, Its called Jumping The Shark. Last Three topics today: first, a clear, unambiguous statement (again) that I do not, and never have, held to any form of EFS/ERAS theology, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they dont know what they are talking about. Those defending White had demonstrated more than I want to know about them. That is a matter of historical fact. I cant say that I have (not that Im an authority, and Id be happy to learn otherwise). It is despicable. James White debates Peter D. Williams at the London Oratory in St. Wilfrids Hall. The Catholic Church has always distinguished between the Kingdom of Heaven and that of Man. In 1930 and to an academic audience, Dr. Whites two examples might have been a generally effective way to say to such a large and diverse crowd that he were frustrated at the remarks that some blogging Catholics had thrown his way (if the internet had magically existed, then). I seem to recall even Aristotle thinking circles in logic might be OK if they were small enough. When that is combined with explicit teaching of a superior human caste that controls and defines truth for such an entity, you have no rational ability to differentiate between that and any other political schema aimed at raw authoritarianism. Thank you Dale What I am saying is that if a person thought it was somehow funny to use them, and responded belligerently when told that constitutes poor judgment, I certainly wouldnt try to discuss the finer points of race relations with him. Chuckto the extent charity isnt shown to Dr. White, Id agree. You are assuming that Catholic Answers is *stupid* and that is frankly offensive. Wordy and vague, his take on the canon is basically, Well, its all very electrical and scientific. What are you talking about? He was born a catholic, like many got hijacked away from the church (just read that droves of Latinos are leaving for the charismatics which does not bode well for the church) and as he has grown a bit older, like all children has decided to return home. We deserve it! Therefore, there will be that many fewer OSAS Protestants and the likelihood that they will perish in Hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior (as per the normative forms of the OSAS). But from Genesis to Revelations, the Bible is full of nothing but story after story of God using His creation to help us, His created, come closer to Him. (How exactly does one prove something is offensive?) I dont see that were taught to forgive only those who repent. 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